Sounds great, I love it... but perhaps use a gong instead of cymbal and add make the plucked string instrument louder so it can compete with the rest of the song.
Maybe have a full chorus come in at 2:00... it's supposed to be the climax! Make it big and bold like a western orchestra, strings play the melody too as well as backing!
Great work... better than I could do if I tried far eastern.
I added a few extra things in, plus mastered it a bit better. I think it sounds pretty cool now.
Just google the pentatonic scale and play with that. You'll end up getting something relatively Far East sounding.
Great work, reminds me of the soundtrack to How to Train your Dragon a little. Certainly could be a tad faster, as Descara said... I think the slowdown is unnecessary honestly.
About the thematic ideas of the piece, it seems a little more like a heroic battle than confronting a villanous clown... perhaps you could devise a countermelody symbolic of this character and use it- some creepy melody on glock or perhaps even a woodwind instrument that is devious sounding.
Regarding the general form of the music, it's a lot of unison, which promotes an idea of a united purpose. Some nice off-beat stuff could throw it off a bit better; off-beat non-chordal hits and such can add a lot of darkness to a piece and turn it from a march to war into a chilling monstrosity. Consider playing around with ideas closer to counterpoint and so on, trying melodies that don't fit together and dissonant chords on french horns to herald transitions (Wagner does this in The Ring Cycle... you kinda did this at ~10 with horns). I really like the ending part, with the trumpets and the vocals. That's the feeling of "where the heck did the beat go?" that lends the feeling of loss to any music.
With all honesty, I will say you could use more dissonance, but I love dissonance almost more than I love music that makes sense, so it's coming from a slight bias here. Dissonance is one of the best ways to build tension, and you use it effectively a lot, but when you combine it with an off-beat counter melody, it's more potent than any other method I know. At louder and more powerful points in the song (such as ~27), if you had a Fortissimo horn counter that went something like "eight-rest, dotted-quarter" (repeated), with a diminished seventh chord or something fun like that, you can obtain a more chaotic feel.
Regarding additional instrumentation ideas, violin harmonics (and "screechy rips" as I call them, or "thriller rips") can lend great terror to a piece. Waterphones can offer both transition and an ominous feeling that few other instruments can replicate aside from perhaps a Franklin Armonica or Bass Flute (~0:36 would be a neat place for waterphone sounds or such... if you have EWQL Symphonic Orchestra, there's one in the Percussion -> Metal that has some great prerecorded patterns). You did a great job with brass and the "crashy-bangy" end of the orchestra; the strings are also flawless, but even dark orchestral should have a quieter more ominous end, which is hard to capture. Not sure what that instrument underlying it is (you can hear it at the end before it loops), but I think it offsets the orchestral style of the piece.
I think this song could benefit from more Timpani, especially rolls in the beginning (hit, hit, hit, roll... following the rhythm of the motif you use there). I really like the depth of the percussion you use here... I hear anvil, bass drum, cymbal, snare, what may be taiko drums or timpani, and never be afraid to try different drums and such.
I really like what you're doing with the trombones and cymbals, but you could work on adding more instruments in... quick four-note flute runs and so on are great for this. Also, at that transition at 17, perhaps a gong or loud cymbal crash could herald that change better than a tempo change or such.
Consider analyzing the score for How to Train Your Dragon... it exemplifies that kind of dynamic range from heroic and bold to calm and quiet to calm and ominous without the listener even detecting the change.
A really excellent piece, as always! I am pleased to see you are moving into this area of orchestral composition... dark orchestral is really a great style to develop and work with, especially when you want to let off steam or anger over something, as it can be both expressive and yet rigid and warlike.
Keep up the great work, after your brief hiatus of course. ;)
-Samulis
Someone who bothers using a Timpani effectively!
I absolutely love the opening Trombone/low horn motif... very heroic. I only wish the strings following it up had more time to develop before the theme around 1:00 came in. At that point, I could imagine some excellent snare work... rolls and "rat-a-tat-tats" in a march going on. Perhaps your timpani could fill in more there. Definitely consider a snare drum at the least... it has the feel of a heroic march from a cinematic score (definitely reminds me of the work of Harry Gregson-Williams in Chronicles of Narnia).
The intro is nice, but I could imagine a triangle part going on... gently chiming in to introduce the trombones and so on.
0:49 with the trumpets heralds a great moment, but imagine offering that to the clarinets (in their lower registries) at first before handing it over to the trumpets around 0:55 with that great dissonant chord.
At the epic horn melody around 1:20, I wonder what would happen if you had your first violins playing 8va that exact melody, it often lends a great epic feel.
As always, your work awes me and inspires me to write even grander pieces. Best of luck with your composing, I'll try to offer some ideas on other pieces if it helps. :)
-Samulis
The first brass instrument you heard was a solo french horn, accompanied by a trumpet later. You always come up with the most innovative ideas in improving music, I don't know what I would do without you honestly.
I'll be producing more epically inspired pieces, and I will do my best to add more emphasis on backup instrumentation and attention to detail. This song was short so I didn't have much time to focus on it as I would have liked.
Thank you for the review, and as always -- you're the best.
Interesting piece here, but there aren't a lot of classical ideas. Sounds like an electronic piece arranged into an orchestral piece. I hope you will take my constructive comments with a grain of salt and consider the suggestions I have left, as they are things I have done to improve my orchestral composition from something far lesser.
I like the progression, but I really think you should consider adding more variation to your motif. Although the change at 1:10 is good, it leads on to that same motif being repeated again and again until the same theme we heard before comes back. Why not take this excellent opportunity for writing in a B-theme there before returning to that A-theme. The nice quiet C theme is nice, but should try to move AWAY from the A theme before returning to the A theme in the finale (which, might I add, is where you'd want to put every ounce of heart-rending beauty and glory). Symbolically, your repeating motif could show how that love endured all changes, but then you have to step back and ask yourself how that will affect people's impression on your song. In the case of Bolero by Ravel, he was okay with having the same key and progression for several minutes straight through a slow, repetitive buildup. :D
This song could certainly benefit from more dynamic changes. Orchestral composition isn't something that should be treated like any other genre... it is expressive, it is flowing... even it its darkest and fastest regions. Your strings have a certain "jilt" to them I think you should try to smooth out through using inversions and ties/slurs.
One of the tricks I have learned over the years writing orchestral is to keep the song moving... sometimes the best idea is to start with two entirely different themes, and try to build a song that transverses the great landscape between them. This allows you to explore, to move, and to even repeat motifs if you choose a form which has that (ABACA or ABCA and so on), but also gives the audience something fresh and new every once in a while, which is the best way to retain an audience for a song over two minutes.
Talking about expression... when you want to show love, you should think more about what feelings you remember from your loves... for me, it would be sorrow; a lone harp playing a soft melody, with it evolving through a great cymbal roll into a glorious theme on full strings and horns. You have to get those feelings and go with them, not go with what progression sounds nice. Use your ear... use your heart... you can tell when an orchestral piece comes from the heart. It could start as a quiet violin, just as your love might have started as that voice in the back of your head urging you to ask the person out... it could start as a quiet woodwinds trio or solo trumpet exclaiming your feelings before you first felt love's touch, quickly rising into soaring strings with a B theme, practically shouting "I'm in love!". This may sound a bit ridiculous, but that's how composers have tackled things like this... by telling a story.
I honestly think this piece is good so far, but you should listen to some more orchestral works... It sounds like you have an ear for more contemporary composers, so consider looking up music by John Adams and Philip Glass, my go-to examples for contemporary music. Also consider some soundtrack music or even some of Richard Wagner's operatic work... both are great for learning the feeling of expression that an orchestra could convey through any piece.
Good luck, I hope you will consider working on more orchestral pieces and improving your style! I have not looked at the rest of your music, but I might give it a look and offer more suggestions if you find this to be of any help! Great work here, it just needs development.
Have a good day,
-Samulis
Hey, thank you for your comment. It was polite and constructive, and I thank you a million times for taking your time to write it.
On that note, I changed the genre of this piece and I'll stop putting music on the "Classical" category, and that way, hopefully aspies like NorskeDrittsekk (but not you!) will stop bugging me.
PS: about this song itself, I went for simple and repetitive because that's the feeling I wanted. I think of the separate parts of it as snapshots of how I felt during one certain day or event. I see it as representing something static. The way it changes, without transition or explanation, is the way I found to represent three completely separate events, at different periods of my life. Since my entire body of work is autobiographical, I feel that it needs to respond to my feelings and my thoughts on whatever I'm trying to convey, and I am extremely satisfied with this song. I just wish I hadn't changed the ending, which, originally, was very sudden and "ugly".
Great piece here... sorry I don't have time to give a big review... I might delete this and replace it later with a full constructive-critique pile.
One thing I noticed was that you did a good job with having a strong melody, although it was rather cliche.
There isn't much of an ending here, consider some downward motion into a final calm closing... not sure if you have heard the opening to Wagner's Rhinegold, but imagine that motion turned around and greatly abbreviated so it fades away into nothingness. Alternately, some very broad hits of the same style as the cello marcato bits in the 1:20-1:40 area) over the orchestra in unison could work. Otherwise, you leave it at a cliff.
The tune seems rather cliche, but you did an amazing job mastering and preparing this (my only note is that some instruments seem to come from the wrong direction when compared to a traditional symphonic setup... brass on the left? violins on the right?... it's a minor detail, and may just be my crummy speakers), I think that makes up for whatever stylistic differences. One of my favorite things is when people actually try to make things sound real... and you did a good job here (I thought the concert "warmup" was a great idea).
Keep up the good work!
-Samulis
Pretty nice... reminds me of Age of Empires soundtrack.
My main tip is to try moving away from repetition... however much fun it is, classical doesn't have a lot of it except for the early stuff. This sounds like video game music to be honest.
You did a good job with switching percussion up. However, for more 'epic' stuff, think about having many instruments, not just more epic percussion. I suggest you listen to some film scores such as that to Lord of the Rings, the Narnia series, and so on... they are great inspiration for "epic" feeling pieces... same with music to some computer games.
A nice piece, I actually really enjoyed this for some reason. Not exactly classical, but nice and varying. Good job, keep working on improving your stuff. :)
I appreciate the feedback sir!
"This sounds like video game music to be honest."
I hope that is a good thing, I have heard some pretty good VG soundtracks. :)
"My main tip is to try moving away from repetition"
I actually tried to make this more repetitive so it had some semblance of a theme (this piece is a deviation from my more 'progressive' pieces). I will keep this tip in mind, and may revise this piece later to correct this.
"A nice piece, I actually really enjoyed this for some reason."
Thanks, I am glad to hear this! This is my first finished 'orchestral' piece (after 4 or so failed attempts), so I'm glad I did something right!
"keep working on improving your stuff. :)"
I will, thanks! I really like this style, and will continue to develop it.
Excellent work. :D
I honestly love the way the piece sings and builds... the dynamic motion is in great motion constantly, that's excellent. I would give you some constructive criticism, but I am not in a good mindset for offering it... instead I will just say that I like it a lot, although some of the instruments could have been balanced a bit better and perhaps a tiny bit more reverb and spreading used at certain points.
Brokendeck was talking a lot about he wants to see pieces with melodies, and yours has a clear one... also lots of dynamic mood changes.
3:30 is epic... love that swing of mood. Masterfully written there onto the end... the rapid arpeggios in the 4:00 area sound great and are something I have honestly never thought of using like that; it provides great action.
The harp around 4:50 is beautiful... that buildup is perfectly executed... the ending doesn't have much of a cadence though, but it sounds great anyway... consider a harp arpeggio of the chord, slowly going up from the lower end of the instrument up to the top over the course of the final note... it offers some more character to an otherwise plain ending.
Great piece... definitely top 8 material. :)
-Samulis
Thanks for the review! You always write helpful ones.
Yeah as far as balance/verb/spread, this is the first mockup I've done with some new VSTs so I'm still getting used to their "power" and how they sit in a mix. I agree here.
The "cadence" if you will, is actually Vmaj7/V (solo harp + strings), then i - iv - I (tutti). Straightforward, but regardless of labels, I had that particular ending voicing in my mental ear early in the composition process.
Thanks again and good luck!
Great work!
Sounds great, my only issue is that the drums sound a bit quiet... consider making the timpani/bass drum a bit wetter and in the 3:00-4:00 area with hits, moving between the first and fifth or first and third has a great feel to it as opposed to sticking on the first. The snare rim-hits around 1:00 should either be a bit louder or perhaps, consider trying them on the drum itself.
You do a great job of making clean motion between the various motifs, and the piece moves well, although some more counter-melodies could have been used. Instrumentation is okay, although I didn't hear much woodwinds. The clarinet around 2:00 is nice, but oboe and 8va would perhaps offer a clearer sound. When you get to the build up around 2:45ish, the range seems fine, but once again, oboe might be better.
Which trumpet were you using for that part near the end? If you were using solo trumpet 1, consider trying solo trumpet 2... it has a timbre that is more fitting for epic songs. Alternately, I have had luck as of late with the 2 trumpet VIs.
There's a fair diversity to the piece, and I think you did a good job with expressing a solid feeling with it.
Best of luck in the competition!
-Samulis
Hey man, thanks for the feeback, I enjoy your music :) I think i used grouped instruments for the parts, including trumpets, if there was any solo instrument it was the french horn, i love french horns. Anyhow thanks for the detailed review :)
Interesting...
I must say, the song is very nice, and I am extremely glad you put some of your theory work in the commentary too so I have something to go on other than just my ears.
I do have a considerable selection of feedback for you on it, so, as I say to most, please take it "cum grano salis", "with a grain of salt".
The first thing I realized as I listened was how dry the mix was. I'm not sure how familiar you are with mixing and mastering, but neither is very well done. The harp, pizzicato plucks around 4:40ish and several other instruments, and much of the brass is asking for more spreading. Reverb is not very clear... a touch of reverb transforms a piece. Especially make sure your lower ranges have a bit of reverb (be careful not to overdo this, however, as a "muddy bassline" may occur).
As for the thematic and symbolic structure of the piece, I do think you did a good job, but as mentioned before, it's a very mechanical composition for the most part... I have nothing against contemporary style, but I would have liked to see a bit more diversity in the piece. It goes through several stages, as I said above, of just flat action... nothing is changing, it's exposition. That is perhaps what lends it that sense of mechanical composition, but if you are looking to write an expressive and symbolic piece, rule number one is everything is always in motion, like a troubled mind or the summer breeze. You did a good job with this around 3:00.
My main tip regarding that sort of thing is that you should consider trying to add more counter-melodies as parts continue. Since you have decided to work with the concept of repetition building into a "Tapestry of Music", parts weaving in and out to form a greater piece (a very contemporary-minimalist idea, to be honest, which is pretty neat), you need to use the motif and counterpoint to your advantage. These two elements will greatly help your melody evolve. An example of this would be to, in the area of around 0:45, add rapid arpeggio lines for the violins going in and out of the chord.
I liked the subtle use of dissonance throughout the start of the piece, as it lends nicely to the growth of the piece.
You used percussion well, although some more metal percussion would aid the original thematic idea, such as orchestral chimes (imagine it outlining the chords in the 2:00 area with whole notes), waterphone (a lovely and mysterious instrument for the harsh start), and anvil (would be nice to accent the brass hits). Violin harmonics (the tonic perhaps?) in long legato suspensions (several measures) during that beginning would also be nice to hear, as that gives an excellent ominous feel.
You have a good concept of writing an effective melody, but you don't do a lot with counter-melodies except in the area around 3:00 to 4:30ish (perhaps my favorite part, to be honest). Chording seems fine in general, I love using vi chords for mysterious parts, and your use of non-key chords (major VII, minor i, iv minor) is irregular, but works fairly well... although it seems like you're not writing in the key you state it as (B?). However, I give you praise for writing in a sharp key... most composers, albeit those who love strings greatly or those in Broadway composing, write in flat keys.
I could offer many suggestions on where to take instruments for improved melody work, but my review is long enough as it is, and I feel you know what you're doing well enough that it would just be a pile of "maybe ifs".
As a last word, I'd like to thank you for your blurb on defining orchestral music... I agree 100%. Orchestral/classical composition is based heavily upon the ear and mind- what can you do to make this feel or this idea come across?
If you are ever interested in collaborating, I write in a similar style and would be glad to work with you, although I use a smaller range of tools (you seem to have quite the expensive set there), working on an old copy of Finale and a whole set of EWQL VIs I recently purchased.
Anyway, great piece, best of luck!
-Samulis
Beautiful!
Perfectly built... the flow of the piece is perfect, although it never seems to reach a solid climax. One of the finest "calm orchestral" pieces I have heard to date, honestly.
One of the things I always bother people about is if they use the instrumentation effectively, especially harps, pianos, and brass. I love the way you used the harp here... it's very calm yet established. I almost feel like some very slight cymbal rolls would be of help during some building motion. A lot of composers simply throw instruments into the rough molds of chords, without batting an eye (or, more fittingly, ear) towards the actual feel of what they have written.
As for a climax, that's the one area I think this song looses out on. It has rising action, but that is abandoned and left hanging. I can image some sort of slowly building climax resulting in a very broad and heroic section. There should also be some sort of finale... I would encourage a return to the quiet soundscape featured at the beginning to give some closing action.
One of the things that I honestly really like is how the chord progression is not always the same and is rather progressive, moving to accommodate for the flow of the piece. In addition, the melody moves around and is even changed at parts, which is something that is great to see... the instrumentation offers even some light symbolism.
Awesome piece, all in all, best of luck!
-Samulis
Orchestral music, weird instruments, and sample libraries just about sums it up.
Age 29, Male
Sample Library Dev
Berklee College of Music
New England
Joined on 1/3/10
Tiger Lilly 
Criminal Insanity 
Nerevar 
Endless Loves 
You are the Prophecy! 
Windswept 
Dwarves in Space 
Eluding Darkness 
